Elisabetta Ullmann: A master Interpreter

Elisabetta Savigni Ullmann has spent a career interpreting the words of presidents, popes, and other powerful officials. She interprets in Italian, English and French for meetings at the highest international levels, working on behalf of many countries, including the U.S., Italy, Canada, Germany and Japan. She is the interpreter of choice for the U.S. State Department and has worked with the White House from the Bill Clinton to the Donald Trump administrations. Ullmann and her husband Maxime have lived and worked in Italy, Geneva, New York City, and Dubai, before transferring to Washington, D.C. in 1989.

Elisabetta Savigni Ullmann has spent a career interpreting the words of presidents, popes, and other powerful officials. She interprets in Italian, English and French for meetings at the highest international levels, working on behalf of many countries, including the U.S., Italy, Canada, Germany and Japan. She is the interpreter of choice for the U.S. State Department and has worked with the White House from the Bill Clinton to the Donald Trump administrations. Ullmann and her husband Maxime have lived and worked in Italy, Geneva, New York City, and Dubai, before transferring to Washington, D.C. in 1989. Anna Isgro, a career journalist, recently interviewed Ullmann as part of the Marconi Project series of oral histories, a program of the Italian American Museum of Washington DC. Below are excerpts from the far-ranging interview, one of the rare media interviews she has granted.

Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed. We’re honored that you chose to recount your story to us. Let’s start by asking you about your family background and how that influenced your future career.

I’m honored and flattered that you asked me to be interviewed for this very interesting project. I think this project is absolutely overdue, to take stock and store the memories and experiences of Italian Americans who have been so important in the shaping of this nation.

I was born in Livorno in Tuscany, in a very Italian family in the sense that both my parents were Italian. They never went abroad, but for some reason I developed this love for languages very early on. Maybe the reason was that near Livorno there is an American military base, called Camp Derby. At the time, the commander of the base, who was of Italian origin, had a daughter and he decided that he wanted his daughter to learn Italian, which was quite unusual with this being in the 1950s. She was in my class. She would invite me to her house and I would see everything American; I would observe their habits and traditions. We would play together, and she would speak many words in English, repeat some words, and I picked them up.

For high school, I wanted to attend a language high school, but Livorno at the time didn’t have one. I had to really persuade my parents to send me to Florence where there was one. So, they sent me to Florence, initially to a Catholic boarding school. When I graduated, I went to what was then called” Scuola Superiore per Interpreti e Traduttori,” a private college of interpretation and translation.

Did you find work easily afterwards?

Immediately after my graduation, I found work. In fact, shortly before completing my degree I obtained a scholarship and went to live in Bari, in the Apulia region, where they had an international school of agriculture. I was interpreting lectures of agronomy and I got experience in simultaneous interpretation, a skill which requires a lot of practice. So, when I completed that scholarship semester, I graduated and was immediately invited to work.

The first conference assigned to me was a telecommunications conference in Florence, and that’s where I met my husband. He was one of the delegates attending the conference. He worked at the time for RCA telecommunications, and he was based in Rome. We fell in love at first sight. A few months later he was transferred by his company to New York. We got married and moved to New York City, where I worked for the Italian mission to the United Nations as a translator. Then in 1981, my husband was transferred to Geneva, where my first daughter was born.

When you arrived in Washington in 1989, how did you navigate your entry into the interpretation field?

I took the State Department Office of Language Services exam for a conference interpreter and I passed. Working as a contractor, little by little I managed to gain their trust. I did not receive high-level assignments at first. But I had already worked extensively as a professional interpreter and I had obtained security clearances, one while at NATO and one from when I worked for the Italian mission to the UN. So, I had an advantage compared to other candidates.

How would you characterize your field? I imagine such a glamorous field must be highly competitive.

Yes, it is very competitive. When you work as an interpreter, it’s very hard to have colleague friends because “vita mea, mors tua," it’s either “they call you” or “they call them.” So, there’s a lot of competition, especially when you work at a high level, people want to have exposure. But I’ve been lucky. Winning that scholarship which gave me that six months of practice really helped because it is very difficult to enter the private market. Well-established interpreters don’t want to give up space and you really have to work very hard to win them over and persuade them to let you be in the booth with them.

Have you personally experienced that competitive atmosphere?

Oh yes, I can tell you a story about when I traveled with President Barack Obama to Italy, it was a big deal as you might imagine. President Obama was very prominent in the mind and imagination of the entire world at that time: the first black president, young, full of promise. So imagine what it meant for me as a native Italian to accompany President Obama to Italy. There were people who were deliriously excited at the idea of just seeing him close.

There is a very strict procedure to follow when you travel with a U.S. president. You must know all the rules, all the jargon. You must be aware of how you move, with whom you speak, how to dress etc. One specific rule is that you have to meet up with the advance team and the secret service in advance to know in which car you are going to sit in the long motorcade. Things work very fast when the president is visiting a foreign country, and they are not going to wait for you, you must know exactly where to go and do it quickly.

So, I was at the Quirinale, the seat of the Italian president, and I was in the booth interpreting. This was already planned. The president was meeting with the president of Italy. As soon as the meeting was over, I knew I had to run and find my car, “car A2” or whatever the number and designation was, and jump onboard because we were going to the Ciampino airport to fly to L'Aquila in Abruzzo, where the G-7 was being held. So that’s what I did, I removed my headset, I ran, and I saw a colleague, an Italian interpreter working for the Italian government, and she said: “Oh yes, they’re waiting for you there. Run, that’s your car.” She is a good colleague of mine, I’ve known her for years, so I did not for one second hesitate and went and sat in this car but nothing was happening…After a few minutes, and I thank God that I had made friends with the head of the drivers of the U.S. Embassy in Rome and he saw me and said:” What are you doing here?” I replied: “I’m in the motor—oh no, this is not the motorcade of the president!” I had to rush, run, and reach the other motorcade, jump on the last car, which was already moving. This meant that I was not in the helicopter with President Obama. I was in the second helicopter, which also meant that when President Obama landed and there was a receiving line with the Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi and all the TVs and media around, I was not there interpreting for him. But an Italian colleague was there...

They had done that on purpose. So, I arrived with the second helicopter. I ran was totally out of breath and usually when there is an official speech or press conference, they generally give you, maybe one minute before, the draft copy of the speech. Sometimes the president followed it, sometimes he didn’t, but at least it was something to hold on to. But for some reason, that day, it did not materialize ...So yes, it is so competitive.

When you're on the world stage, I imagine that it's important to maintain a neutral expression, refrain from showing personal reactions while interpreting. As I recall, a few years ago you made headlines while interpreting for President Trump. Would you care to explain what happened that day and how the incident went viral?

Absolutely, I think the Marconi Project deserves to hear my version, which is the real version, because so many things have been written, and so many people have had ideas about it and so many versions were printed. This happened in 2019 and still today, people call me and say things which are not true or take for granted things that did not happen so I really enjoy this opportunity to answer your question. We interpreters, and maybe I think this is the secret of why I am still being assigned these high-level meetings after all these years, not because I’m the best, I am not, However, I believe I have honed this skill of facilitating the dialogue and eventually forming a relationship between two people, in this case, two presidents, and know how they want to communicate And this is the point that I want to make. Usually, while interpreting I try to embody their feelings. if they are enthusiastic, I will use the same enthusiastic tone. If they are cautious. I will sound cautious. We interpreters must become actors. I have some colleagues who work in simultaneous interpretation and who are excellent, almost perfect, but their delivery is flat and devoid of intonation. And I think that this is a disservice to the speakers. I think that we should, even with imperfections, even with approximations, try to convey what they mean to say to each other because in fact, we do not translate, we interpret. It’s important that you do justice to the intention of the speaker. Does the speaker want to sound nice? Does the speaker want to sound threatening? I think I have this ability, even though I have lots of other shortcomings.

So, when I found myself at the Oval Office that day, there was an unusual breach of protocol because President Mattarella happens to have poor hearing on one ear. So instead of sitting as I usually do on the left of the U.S. president, - I’m his Italian voice - then on his right with a gap in between them sits the Italian President with his interpreter on his right. They told me that because President Mattarella couldn’t hear on one side, they would have me sitting between President Trump and President Mattarella. In other words, in the camera shot, which is never the case. So, I felt really ill at ease, you’re there in full sight, you must be conscious of your posture-- your body language must be in line. So, I was very tense. Plus, I knew that President Trump was difficult to interpret for, because sometimes he forgot about interpretation, and go on and on. So, everything was there to make my life difficult, and my face looked anxious.

This was not a press conference, this was what they call a “camera spray” when the two leaders meet in the Oval Office and all the cameramen and journalists come in and some of them ask one or two questions, the leaders shake hands, photo op, a few words and that’s it. It usually lasts less than 20 minutes. President Trump accepted many questions and answered them right away and his first remarks lasted 11 minutes. Now, 11 minutes in our line of work, when you take notes in consecutive interpretation, which is used for bilateral meetings, is a very long time. The leader usually speaks for a maximum of two, three, four minutes and then stop so that the interpreter can render the interpretation. So, the first time he took the floor, was the first time I was interpreting for him and he spoke for 11 minutes. I was writing everything and at a certain point, the journalists asked a question that had nothing to do with the relationship between Italy and the United States. So it happened that the night before, President Trump had welcomed to the White House the British parents of a young man who had been run over by the car driven by the wife of a US diplomat in London who had left the scene without stopping -- so this was a big deal. I thank God that I had read about this on the news, and one journalist was shouting a question, and there’s a lot of noise and shouting and confusion in the Oval office in these instances.” Oh, so President Trump, what do you think of the family…” and he said the name of the family. But I could not, I was not sure I had understood the name. So, my expression was, of pure agony, it was tense and that’s when they took that famous picture that went viral.

And then they created the meme inserting the words spoken by President Trump about the Romans in Italy that he had pronounced three hours later in the real press conference when I was sitting in the booth providing simultaneous interpretation. So, this was, you know, cut and paste with my face from the morning and the sound bite of something being said later.

It was a factored video, it was a factored meme. And later, I really had a big problem. I was called from our Language Services Office and asked if I had made faces while President Trump talked. And I said: "Absolutely not.” Thank God, there is a full video of the whole session, which lasted 45 minutes and what I said can be verified. So, I was certainly tense and my face spoke volumes about my own anxiety but no, I was not making faces, I was not commenting in any shape or form on what the President was saying.

Sounds like you were working against great odds. Which other heads of state and other VIPs have you interpreted for?

As we said before, it’s a very glamorous job, and this is the best part. The anxiety, the stress, it’s on the back side. The best part is that you rub elbows with the leaders, the makers and shakers of the world. And in some cases, I’ve been really privileged. The Pope, of course, comes to my mind. Even though I had accompanied President George W. Bush to the Vatican and had interpreted for him in his many meetings with the Vatican Secretary of State, I had never been let into his meetings with the Pope and so I interpreted for the first time for the Pontiff when Pope Benedict met with President Obama. And the Holy Father was not what I had expected. I thought that Pope Benedict seemed so cold, but instead after an hour and a half with President Obama and him, I have to say that I changed my mind completely. His Italian was perfect, even though with a German accent, and he really came across as a much warmer and very illuminated person.

I have to say, President Obama seemed nervous. He was on edge. And we were sitting next to each other, like two school children at a desk with a Pope on the other side. And I remember that I could sense that he was quite nervous. And today I am pleased with myself because I think that I helped him. In fact, when you have an interpreter, you have an ally. That’s what I always tell the Italian politicians, even if you speak English, don’t. Because you have a tool in your hands. You can think about what you just said, and you can see the reaction of your interlocutor after the interpretation, and you can adjust. So, I think that President Obama was grateful that I was there because he spoke and waited for me to interpret and he had the time to really calm down while I was interpreting. After the departure of Pope Benedict, I met Pope Francis.

And you were there when Vice President JD Vance met Pope Francis, the day before the Pontiff passed away.

Yes, I was there. Pope Francis looked very frail. He looked very pale. He looked like he had suffered a lot, but as soon as he opened his mouth I saw a spark of life. I was so shocked when I heard the following day that he had died, because of course, I’m not a doctor, and, a stroke is a stroke, but in my view, he did not look like he was about to die, he was full of life, still full of life.

You were also the interpreter for then First Lady Jill Biden on her trip to her ancestral town in Sicily.

Yes, we started from Sigonella, where the U.S. troops are stationed and Dr. Biden spoke to the troops there. It was part of the Christmas celebrations. And then we drove by car, just a small motorcade, and we traveled from Sigonella, which is in the center of Sicily, to this little village

nestled up in the mountains called Gesso, not far from Messina. And for me, it was wonderful, because the narrow roads climb up on these tortuous roads, and you see the dark mountains in contrast with the blue of the sea, a part of Sicily that you normally don’t see. Arriving in this little village was like traveling back in time. This was a village which obviously had been abandoned, all the young people had left. And so the authorities had been patching it, preparing it for the arrival of Dr. Biden. And it was wonderful. They had the band, they had built a dais in front of the church, the mayor of Messina, the mayor of Gesso were present, and Dr. Biden spoke off the cuff, and she was very moved because I guess with all the negative things that were going on with her husband and the tensions back home, she felt happy to be welcomed so warmly. There were lots of Italian Americans present originally from Gesso who had traveled from the United States to be there, and it was a very warm welcome, and she spoke and I was interpreting for her and at a certain point, even though Dr. Biden knew very well when to stop to let me interpret, I decided to interrupt her because she had said something that she thought would elicit a response from the crowd but she didn’t get it because she had mispronounced the word in Italian. And I knew she was disappointed that the people had not reacted to it. So I jumped in and I interrupted her because she was saying:” I want you to know that I’m the first Italian American, First Lady that has managed to gather the Italian community at the White House, and I’ve served,” - she wanted to say “gnocchi,” but she said something like “gnocchi.” I don’t remember exactly what she said, but the people didn’t understand it, and she was disappointed that she did not get a reaction. So I jumped in and translated into Italian: "and I’ve served gnocchi,” and so, ah! Everybody cheered (laughed) and Dr. Biden gave me an appreciative look as if to say: “Okay, you cut me off, but thank you.”

So, of all the fascinating experiences you’ve had, what did you find most enjoyable?

It’s a tough question. To tell you the truth, the experience that has given me the most joy are the Olympic games. I have been lucky to be part of the official teams of interpreters for the Olympic games. I’ve covered eight or nine since 1996. Before COVID we interpreters were allowed to be close by during the competitions, first row, to see exactly what was happening, because we would interpret for the press conference for the medal winners. And to be exposed to these superhuman beings, it’s a fantastic experience. They send you vibes, you know? It’s true. Watching on TV is not the same thing. When you sit next to, let’s say, a gymnastics athlete, they send out this incredible energy. I really enjoy that.

In all your years residing in the U.S. have you seen any change in the way Americans perceive Italians?

There is a much greater awareness of Italian culture beyond the usual stereotypes of pizza, gelato, and tarantella, or whatever was the case before. There is a true appreciation for Italian culture. Personally, I’ve always felt well treated in this country as a native Italian, and have never been or felt discriminated against, as was the case in the past for Italians emigrating to the U.S. I find that the perception of Italy has changed at every level of the government and American society.

I am very proud of my Italian heritage because we are very relevant, especially working for the Italian embassy, I see that all the time. Our experts, Italian experts, Italian inventors, they’re finally getting the credit they haven’t received in the past.

Is there anything else you would like to tell us that we haven’t covered?

Again, I want to stress how appreciative I am of your initiative of this Marconi Project, it is overdue. I feel privileged and proud that I am part of it so that in the future, people will know that one of the White House interpreters was Italian born.

----Interview was recorded by Marconi Project team member Giovanni Sciannameo